Skip to main content

Universal Salvation and Pope John Paul II - Updated

+
JMJ

Reblogged / Updated: I found an mistake in one of the links, which has now been rectified.

While following the comings and goings in the blogosphere (ie following the blogs that I link - but abstaining from commenting), I came across a couple of articles that I believe require some commentary - but not because of the contents but the references.

I was reading the Remnant's latest online article  and noticed the following reference:


Eternal damnation remains a possibility, but we are not granted, without special divine revelation, the knowledge of whether or which human beings are effectively involved in it.
I found the same reference in another article in reply to the 'radtrad' accusations by various online personalities.


I have read this particular phrase many times, linked with the assertion that Pope John Paul II believed in Universal Salvation.

Today I decided to follow the reference to explore the context. That was when I discovered that the online version of the text did not agree with that quoted above. 

Instead it read:
Damnation remains a real possibility, but it is not granted to us, without special divine revelation, to know which human beings are effectively involved in it. 
Needless to say, I was stunned that the Remnant could have made such an error.  

As I dug further (google was invaluable) I discovered that there are two versions of the text of the 28 July 1999 audience on the Vatican website.  One that is accessed via the main vatican.va website by navigating to the audiences of Bl. Pope John Paul II.The other which appears in some searches with the correct keywords.  

It is the latter version that agrees with the quotations provided by the 'radtrads' of the Remnant, SSPX etc.

Version 1


Eternal damnation remains a real possibility, but we are not granted, without special divine revelation, the knowledge of whether or which human beings are effectively involved in it.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999_en.html

La dannazione rimane una reale possibilità, ma non ci è dato di conoscere, senza speciale rivelazione divina, se e quali esseri umani vi siano effettivamente coinvolti.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999_it.htm


Version 2


Damnation remains a real possibility, but it is not granted to us, without special divine revelation, to know which human beings are effectively involved in it.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999_en.html

La dannazione rimane una reale possibilità, ma non ci è dato di conoscere, senza speciale rivelazione divina, quali esseri umani vi siano effettivamente coinvolti.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999_it.html

When I noticed the difference, I was reminded that history is written by the victor.  

I am confident that the conspiracy minded will launch into orbit over this 'discovery' drawing conclusions that are not supported by the evidence.

What we do know is that there is a difference between the two translations.

The question that needs to be answered is whether or not it is merely a correction to bring the words into line with what Pope John Paul II actually said, or is it an attempt to scrub something from his record.

There is no point in arguing the issue. All that is required is to produce a recording of the audience, which I assume was given in Italian, and verify the actual words.

Perhaps someone will be able to do such a service in the near future.

Wishing you a Holy and Happy Lent!

Tradical
P^3

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Is it sinful to attend the Novus Ordo (New Mass) - Is it Sinful to Not Attend the Novus Ordo on Sunday?

+ JMJ A non-SSPX Catholic is upset over the SSPX statements on not attending the Novus Ordo Missae. Ladies and gentlemen, what the SSPX, or at least its website editor, is advocating is a mortal sin against the Third Commandment.  Unless the priest deviates from the language of the Sacramentary, the consecration, and thus the rest of Mass is to be considered valid.  No one may elect not to attend Mass simply because abuses are occurring therein.  Might I suggest that such absenteeism is its own abuse?  The Third Commandment binds under mortal sin.  Father So-And-So from the SSPX has no authority whatsoever to excuse attendance at Mass, be that Mass ever so unpalatable. Source:Restore DC Catholicism Well, this is interesting. First why does the SSPX issue this statement? Because it is sinful to put your faith in danger by attending a protestant service.  It is likewise dangerous to put your faith in danger by attending a protestantized mass (ie the Novus Ordo Missae

Morning and Evening and other sundry Prayers

+ JMJ Along the theme of P^3 (Prayer, Penance, Patience), and for my own reference ... here is a collection of Morning and Evening prayers from the Ideal Daily Missal along with some additional prayers. In this crisis of the Church, I do not think it is possible to do too much prayer, penance and have patience. P^3

Regarding Post: Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer no longer ... now Bishop Joseph Pfeiffer (Can't see this being a problem...)

 + JMJ   I've been watching the popularity of the post about Fr. Pfeiffer's attempted episcopal consecration and its continued top listing on the 'popular posts' list at the bottom of posts.  After some thought, I decided that I don't want to be responsible for anyone joining Fr. Pfeiffer's 'group', however unlikely that would be at this time. So I have reverted the article to the draft state. If anyone wants it reinstated, I would ask that they comment on this post with a rationale for reinstatement. P^3

The Vatican and SSPX – An Organizational Culture Perspective

Introduction The recent and continuing interactions between the Vatican and the SSPX have been a great opportunity for prayer and reflection.  The basis for the disagreement is theological and not liturgical. As noted by Dr. Lamont (2012), the SSPX theological position on the four key controversial aspects of the Second Vatican Council are base on prior theological work that resulted from relevant magisterial pronouncements.  So it is difficult to understand the apparent rejection of the theological position of the SSPX.